Pigeon River & Beyond - Back Country Horsemen, Michigan

This is the next camp on the DNR's list to put restraints on.  They claim that equestrian use is destroying the quality of the stream which has been designated a premier trout stream, horses they claim are killing the trout!  I don't know about you, but my horse has never killed a trout! This is just one more step in clamping down and taking control.  The way Goose Creek is designed, there is no way to control the numbers of campers that use this area.  They are unable to put a gate on it.  They have to allow access to fisherman and other campers in the same area.  So, by moving the horse camp away from this area-they will be able to accomplish this goal.  Their plan is to build a camp away from the river and then control the size.  What we have heard is that the number of campsites will be limited to around 50.  This also will then require 2 wells-25 campsites per well is what DEQ rules state.  By doing this, horses will no longer be allowed to cross the river at the existing campground.  You will then have to ride down Manistee River road and 612 HWY. to cross the river at a Horse crossing bridge that would have to be also built. 

This is an insane idea and would once again put equines and people at risk .

This is all in the planning stage now folks-we need to stand up and "Just say NO"!  With the way the economy is right now, the monies that it would take to do this project would have to come from grants that are now being applied for.  This money is borrowed money-where is it coming from?  China--or you and I with future tax increases!!!!!!!

Yes. It's time to bring everyone to the table to talk about this. Hikers, campers, equestrians, people who fish, etc. etc. with the appropriate state agencies. 

It's not brain surgery or rocket science.  Take a look at what's there, develop options and alternatives, discuss them and evaluate.  Seek volunteers if needed. Provide signs to educate.  

please read the comments posted in the mtra forum page  about the goose creek crossing. There was one post that suggested as long as mtra has access to goose creek it was okay to not allow 4-h  or little clubs in there. Due to the fact 4-h and little clubs cause all the trouble. any restriction to all equestrian users should be our main focus and we have to unite and stick together! we have got to stop the closing of all our trails in michigan!  we are all created equal!  we are losing our right to ride in michigan!

Yes Jackie I agree. And... it's an educational thing.  I feel ashamed that 4H riders are not taught how to care for what's there - if that's part of the problem. But I'm sure there are adults too.

So...  how can we educate everyone and practice "Leave No Trace". I'm sure we can get Karen Waite at MSU Coop Extension involved.  Do some educating and some volunteer work to repair and enhance the area. Seems to me that the mat that is put down at other streams - could that be used? I'm not familiar with the geography of that camp.

We have to remember that on the MTRA site this only one persons preception what is happening there!    Somebody has to be blamed for it  and that was the easy way out, blame somebody elese!

So who is an actual expert (or at least experienced) in trail design and trail sustainability in the Michigan area? 

The North Country Trail Association is headquartered in Lowell and would probably have some good people to contact but I don't know if they have any certifications or classes.  Their annual conference is July / Aug in N. Dakota. 

The Michigan Mountain Bike Association is having their statewide expo tomorrow (2/22) at the Lansing Center and the guest speaker is from the International Mountain Bike Association to talk about advocacy and trails.  I know the MMBA has people that have been trained by the IMBA in trail design and they occasionally have trail building workshops.

I don't know anything about OHV (off highway vehicle) or Snowmobile groups.

I agree that this is a dumb idea.  But, as I understand it, there is nothing we can do about it.  I hope that is not true.  I have been going to Goose creek for about 30 years.  In my opinion, it is the best rustic horse camp in Michigan.  It really makes me sad, to think about it not being there anymore.

 wonder if it will be called "little wild"...ya know PRC is so called the "big wild". p.s. lovejoy had a vision...so do I.....JUST KEEP RIDIN...!!!

CHAPPY at 01:08AM on Feb 26, 2009

 wonder if it will be called "little wild"...ya know PRC is so called the "big wild". p.s. lovejoy had a vision...so do I.....JUST KEEP RIDIN...!!!

A few years back I asked the MTRA for some help on a trail issue here dealing with the Fred Meijer Heartland Trail and was told by one of thier members in Marion,Mi that it did concern them and they only took care of thier trails up north and nowhere else sorry.

I recall hearing someone else say that too. That MTRA only supported the camps and trails on the S2S.

So that's why it is SO important to have the group Back Country Horsemen. The leadership and the members can do much more and focus on areas that are threatened or need help.

Boo & Leroy at 11:08AM on Feb 26, 2009

CHAPPY at 01:08AM on Feb 26, 2009

 wonder if it will be called "little wild"...ya know PRC is so called the "big wild". p.s. lovejoy had a vision...so do I.....JUST KEEP RIDIN...!!!

A few years back I asked the MTRA for some help on a trail issue here dealing with the Fred Meijer Heartland Trail and was told by one of thier members in Marion,Mi that it did concern them and they only took care of thier trails up north and nowhere else sorry.

boo,

I really did not want to comment on anything about MTRA due to the FACT that they have not and will not stand up and fight for THE RIGHT TO RIDE...isn't riding what they stand for??

I have never been a member of MTRA

I and my husband have been involded in this fight from the very start

we dont ride in big groups...something they "MTRA "and OTHER's all need to learn

                                      <<<Leave no trace>>>

LAST YEAR at the very first Midland Dow meeting ...It was My husband and my self that brought to the attention of our forming group Tons of information about  the Back Country Horsemen!!!

Its a wonderful Organization and can help teach everyone on both sides of the fence how to repect / manage Public land...!!!

and boo don't be sorry for MTRA ..its really not worth it!!

I seen a sign about cowboy Logic kinda reminds me of MTRA

it says

"DON'T PISS DOWN MY LEG AND TELL ME ITS RAINING" !!

;)Just keep ridin

Chappy

You and I have coversed before.

It started on the other Board (http://www.michiganhorsemenplu.com/index.htm 

I think with a few emails I was with the group parked by the tubes that the DNR wanted you'al to tell them who we where.

I'm not downing the MTRA and at one time was going to join them but with the way times are I'm thinking this will probably be the one I join as soon as I can actually meet and chat with a few of you.

My profile will tell you where I live and when I was a kid our farm bordered State land and we rode and camped all over and now if were caught on it they will ticket us.

My thing with the MTRA was they are all ready known State wide and really thought they were the place to go for some help.

Boo

Oh gezzz bo....Know i remember you...lol

yes the Michiganhorsemenplu was a site that I built when this thing started .To get Michigan Horsemen Informed.

We would love to have you join our group and help fight for your right to ride.

Chappy  

CHAPPY at 02:17PM on Feb 26, 2009

Oh gezzz bo....Know i remember you...lol

yes the Michiganhorsemenplu was a site that I built when this thing started .To get Michigan Horsemen Informed.

We would love to have you join our group and help fight for your right to ride.

Chappy  

Trying to clear schedule for sunday so I can get to Cadilac.

And I know for sure I will be at MSU Stallion Expo.

I'm going to leave some bussiness cards with Rita and Tammy they own Action Awards and always have a booth.

My Cell # is on My Cards 989-814-0643

Boo

I saw a comment above said they heard nothing could be done.It made me think of a saying I heard. All that is nescessary for truly evil men to rise to power is - enough good men to do nothing. I understand that at times that it may feel like nothing can be done.I feel that nothing is further from the truth.There are a few key things I feel are import. Large numbers,let your voice be heard and heard often.Know your facts.don't be afraid to let your "voice" be heard but act intelligent ant polite.The job of all elected officials(I have been one on a local level for a dozen plus years) is to represent the majority interest of a the people that elected them.If your elected officials don't represent the majority will it is the job of the majority to unelect them and elect someone who "will"represent their interest.  A common mistake I see people make is they come to one meeting all in an uproar.What ever they are asking is not immediatly inacted .So they throw up there arms. Say see nothing can be done.And they are never heard from again. Winston Churchill once said "Never give up.Never give up ,Never giive up. Also remember this "The squeeky gets the grease."

Thank you Mr. Product of Presque Isle!  Very well said....We will "NEVER GIVE UP!"  If things can't be changed from the top down let's do just the opposite...Bottoms UP!

How about one more....

Don't forget our meeting at Jay's tomorrow-Feb. 28th at 1:00 Jay's Sproting Goods in Clare.  Outback Room.  This will be a great time to meet others who want to make a difference.....This will be the beginning of our networking strategy.  Come join us and get involved!  We will also have at Stallion Expo-in the Trails room.

I would like to make but I'm in Truck Sales and work every Saturday and have Mondays off.

I Trust there will be someone there that will pass along all the Info.

oops=we'll have a table in the Trails room-it's too early in the morning for brain to be completely engaged.

Connie